2008, by HotChocolate

I recently had the opportunity to talk with Scott Schell, co-author of the Mountaineers book "BACKCOUNTRY SKIING: Skills for Ski Touring and Ski Mountaineering". The book is part of the Mountaineer's Outdoor Expert Series and provides a great resource for beginning and intermediate backcountry skiers.

Martin Volken on the Coleman Glacier, Mt Baker, Washington

Scott wrote the book along with Martin Volken and Margaret Wheeler. He has been an avid backcountry skiing enthusiast for the last 15 years. He is AMGA certified, teaches avalanche classes and guides for a company called Pro Guiding Service in North Bend, Washington. During the interview, he provided us with insight into the book. He also dared to comment on some hot topics related to backcountry skiing in general… Here is a transcript of the conversation:

Margaret Wheeler finds some powder in Schweitzer, Idaho

About the Book

Skiing the Backcountry:
Can you tell us about the authors (including yourself)?

Scott Schell:
Martin comes from Switzerland. He was certified as a mountain guide in Switzerland and moved to the US around 1991. He started a little ski shop in Seattle called Pro Ski Services. It must have been one of the earliest hard-core backcountry ski shops in the country.

I met Martin when I answered an ad in ‘96 and eventually ended up managing his store. It was early on... We were selling lots of Fritchi and Dynafit bindings... I don’t remember the numbers anymore, but I remember at one time that we sold more Fritchi bindings than any other single store in the country! We were selling the first generation Fritchi Diamars (which all broke by the way) before any ski magazine ever showed a picture of touring gear.

Skiing the Backcountry:
(So we can blame today’s backcountry crowds on your shop...)

Scott Schell:
Well, not really. My point is that it became a cool little epicenter, at least in the Northwest. And a lot of that comes from the fact that Martin had brought over his European training. There were a lot of good stories… Like when a guy, who was a Boeing engineer, came in to the shop to explain his brilliant idea of a binding with a hinge that allowed you to go downhill skiing and also go uphill if you just bolted a hinge underneath your bindings. And Martin said, “oh yeah... Kinda like this binding?” and showed him the Fritchis. To the hard core people, the randonée world was pretty much a mode of transportation to access ice climbing. For most winter enthusiasts if you were a skier, you were on telemark gear.

That was exactly my trajectory. I had heard that if I wanted to go into the backcountry, I needed to go get some goofy things called skins, and some leather boots. Even though I was a downhill skier! And so it was kind of an interesting time for the whole backcountry world. I do think that Martin had a little bit of a role in getting downhill skiers into the backcountry (at least in the Northwest) with randonée gear.

Of course REI and Marmot in Seattle were selling some touring gear. But they weren’t making the crossover to downhill skiers. They were selling touring gear primarily to climbers.

Martin, on the other hand, would convince downhill Skiers to buy randonée gear instead of telemark gear for backcountry skiing. It was a different deal. Kinda neat.

Then, Margaret… She got in to backcountry skiing in Europe. Out of college she spent a couple winters in Chamonix, developing some solid skiing skills. I met her a couple years later and was pretty immersed in the guiding world. I got her involved in guiding as well. She has now become one of only 3 US women to get fully certified through the AMGA to meet international IFMGA standards.

Skiing the Backcountry:
Who had the idea to write a book about backcountry skiing?

Scott Schell:
Writing the book was my idea. I don’t know if it was a good idea or a bad idea. It’s a good idea now that it’s done… At times, it seemed like it was a bad idea while we were working on it.

About 3 years ago, I had the idea to write an updated backcountry guide book for Washington State. At an industry gathering, I asked a woman from The Mountaineers if there would be interest in the project. She responded by saying that their interest would be much stronger in a Ski Mountaineering/Ski Touring book that would be part of The Mountaineers outdoor expert series.

That conversation really turned a light on. I had always thought about the need for such a book. People would take intro courses and then ask what they should pick up to read. And the answer had always been difficult... There were a couple of good books that were out of print. There was Mike and Allen’s Backcountry Book, which has some really good points, but is not all inclusive.

As I thought about the book proposal, I realized that such a comprehensive book would be a rather daunting task, and so I asked Martin if he would be interested and he said yes. Then, since Martin and I are not necessarily writers by trade, I asked Margaret if she would like to help. She is much more of a writer than both of us.

That’s how the three of us ended up doing it. We created a book proposal and got it. 3 years later, here we are.

Skiing the Backcountry:
Now that it’s done, what is one thing that you would like to say to your readers that was not included in the book?

Scott Schell:
Wow, that’s a big question. Almost all of the topics could be further expanded upon. Whether more information would benefit the beginning to intermediate backcountry user is hard to say. It’s always a challenge with a book of such scope. However, I think something that was edited a little too heavy was the navigation section.

Skiing the Backcountry:
Funny you mention that… It seems like the majority of people who backcountry ski rarely get out and practice with their compass.

Scott Schell:
That’s a big difference between the average North American backcountry skier and the average European backcountry skier. My perspective of being a mountain guide is that if you don’t know how to use a map and compass, you sure as heck shouldn’t have skins on your feet.

Skiing the Backcountry:
Is there anything in the book that would be new information for your average backcountry enthusiast? Say someone who has taken a couple avalanche classes and backcountry skied for a few years.

Scott Schell:
Uphill travel and kick turns. It’s amazing how many people (who have backcountry skied for more years than I am old) take our Intro to Ski Touring Course, come out of the class and say, “I had no Idea that’s how you walk up hill.” People always underestimate going uphill.

Skiing the Backcountry:
What did you learn from writing the book?

Scott Schell:
Time management is tricky. Better ways of explaining things. Again the uphill section was hard to write because there is little written about it in the detail we wanted for our book. How do we explain something that we have been doing for years, and can teach to someone in person? Making sure the words and the photos we used in the book accurately depicted what we were trying to say was very challenging.

Skiing the Backcountry:
What sort of feedback has the book received?

Scott Schell:
Excellent Feedback, so far. Lou Dawson’s posted a nice review on his blog.

General Backcountry Skiing Questions

Skiing the Backcountry:
What do you consider acceptable risk?

Scott Schell:
First and foremost, acceptable risk in a group should be accepted by all group members. The risk level needs to be set to the lowest common denominator. The problem with acceptable risk is that it is rarely discussed until the group is actually traveling in avalanche terrain. I think acceptable risk should be discussed in some manner with the entire group before embarking on the tour. For me, my acceptable risk has decreased as I have gotten older.

Skiing the Backcountry:
Have you ever participated in an avalanche rescue, or been involved in a slide?

Scott Schell:
No, I never have participated in a rescue. Yes, I have been in a slide. It wasn’t very big, but I was definitely under for a little bit, and came out partially buried. It was in an avalanche-controlled side-country area. I recognized the slope, my partner spotted me, I knew enough that I recognized a hazardous wind pocket, but I figured I was in a controlled area and figured the snow would be good. Sure Enough the slab popped, about a meter and half deep, by forty feet wide. I went over a fifteen foot cliff and into a narrow trough, lost my skis and poles. It gave me a real appreciation for how fast things can go wrong, and the amount of force involved with something like that. I nailed a tree and still have a bum shoulder from it. That was six years ago. I think once you experience the acceleration of the snow it really changes your attitude on how much damage it can do. Definitely changed my outlook- I never want to be caught in a slide again. It changed my awareness of consequence.

Skiing the Backcountry:
What is in your ski pack right now? How much do you think it weighs?

Scott Schell:
The guides training has ingrained in my head to be prepared. I do take all the things we wrote about, even ski crampons in mid winter, I have been burned too many times without them. It probably weighs around 20 lbs.

Skiing the Backcountry:
The ski industry is undergoing some dramatic changes. How do you feel about extreme skiers who push the limits?

Scott Schell:
I think it’s awesome. I think it allows the sport to progress. The athleticism is amazing.

Skiing the Backcountry:
Do you think that the film companies bear some responsibility for a casual attitude towards backcountry safety?

Scott Schell:
One thing I don’t like is that whole risk acceptance thing is not portrayed well in the mainstream movies. I do think they should take a more progressive role in either explaining how things are done, and or explain the consequences of the lines these athletes are skiing. In regards to avalanches, it seems the only footage they show is the uber athlete making it out of the avalanche path just in the nick of time. Not that I want to see people die or be buried but there is nothing being shown of the reality of the consequences. You don’t see the behind the scenes- that there is a guide and a snow safety person evaluating which slopes these athletes should ski – I suppose this would not make the most gripping scene and that’s probably why they don’t bother. There’s way more to it that flying out in a helicopter and pointing to which mountains you want to ski. I don’t hold the movie’s responsible for the complacent attitude in the backcountry, but I do think they can help improve upon the attitude in the backcountry.

Skiing the Backcountry:
How do you view all of the recent technology advancements in avalanche safety gear. For example, airbags and multi-search beacons?

Scott Schell:
I am most excited about the technology that will come from the airbag advancements. I think people need to dial in and practice their shoveling techniques. The bulk of the burial time is in the excavation of snow. The average amount of snow for an average North American burial is right around one ton! So shoveling techniques are huge! I always tell people, bring at least a shovel, beacon, and probe. But statistically if you forget one of these items, you might as well leave the other two because they won’t do you much good. Those are the three main safety, but I think in the next couple of years the avalanche airbag may be a fourth item that avalanche instructor will say, “If you don’t bring these four items, don’t bother bringing any of them”. The airbag has some really good statistics and test results. With all the tests they have done almost no one gets buried!

Skiing the Backcountry:
Thank you so much for your time! We really appreciate having the opportunity to talk with you. Happy skiing!

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